The GIG Economy Podcast
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The GIG Economy Podcast
Half-Million-Dollar Car, Two-Dollar DoorDash Order, What Could Go Wrong? | Ep 283
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We trade holiday greetings and dive straight into autonomous vehicle hype versus reality, then tackle flooded delivery markets, “Dash Now for all,” and a bold proposal to cap active drivers to improve earnings and reduce data waste. A Boulder case study shows restaurants reclaiming ordering while still using DoorDash drivers, hinting at a new pathway for fair pricing and better tips.
• Waymo’s recalls, school bus failures, and outage confusion
• AV safety, insurance opacity, and PR overreach
• Data costs from rejected low-pay orders
• “Dash Now for all” and oversaturation pressure
• Dynamic caps to limit active drivers by demand
• Waitlists as a guardrail for fair access
• Private rides, catering, and multi-app strategy
• Boulder restaurants leaving the apps, direct ordering with third-party delivery
• Lawsuits, regulation, and the 2026 legal wave
• Community support via Telegram and weekly show cadence
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Holiday Opener & Crossover Setup
SPEAKER_01Happy holidays, folks. Thank you so much for a great 2025 for the Gig Economy podcast. I got an episode here. It was impromptu from Steve from Right Chair Rodeo. So it's from his show, but Larry and I are on it. Larry's mom uh is out of the hospital and doing well. Uh this was kind of impromptu, and he said, Hey, let's do a show. And I'm like, sweet, let's do it. So this will be the last episode for 2025. We'll be back the first week of January. And again, thank you guys so much. I really appreciate all the support. Uh, enjoy this episode.
SPEAKER_03Happy new year, everybody.
SPEAKER_00What's up, everybody? Welcome to the podcast. Uh coming up on the end of the year, not my end of year podcast yet, but uh I'm I'm stoked to have these guys with me. I have the uh gig economy podcast guys. If you are not familiar, uh you should check them out. Um, their link is in the description of the wherever you're watching this, if you're listening to it right now, it is it is in there already. Uh so give them give them a listen, give them a give them a check and out. Uh always a good conversation when I go over there or you come here. And I got both you guys today. So, what's up, Jason and Larry?
SPEAKER_02What's going on, Steve?
SPEAKER_01It's nice to nice to be on here. Thank you for having us. I uh saw you were on our last show and someone made a comment. I really like you guys together. You guys should do more stuff together. I'm like, hey, guess what? We're gonna be on the show on now that you mention it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. Whoever said it, we have. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I appreciate Steve filling in for me last week, too, at the at the last second there. I had a somewhat of a family emergency with my mom going in the hospital. So I appreciate Steve stepping in. And yeah, I hated I hated leaving Jason in a lurch, man, because it was like what 30 minutes before the show or something. No, it was an hour. It was an hour, okay. I knew that. I got out of my PT session and got a text from my sisters like, hey, I'm taking mom to the hospital. I think she's had a stroke, and I was like, Oh my gosh. Yeah, so yeah, I appreciate that, Steve.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no worries. I mean, luckily for me, I do have guests, but sometimes I roll alone. So if a guest doesn't show, they're just never invited back, but I can still make the show happen. There you go. There you go. You're a blackball, right? Like, I'm sorry, I probably had to cancel your. I didn't cancel, you're just not invited back.
Host Intros & Recent Life Updates
SPEAKER_05Straight, dude.
SPEAKER_00So we got some topics here. I'm I'm actually stoked because Jason and I, one of them Jason and I got into um last week a little bit, which was an idea I'd been building on, and then this we also saw this week the dash now for all carried out that I'd been talking about for months that people were questioning, and now everybody's sit talking about it and some of the bad that comes with it and whatnot, but it rolls into my idea. But before we even went there, um I needed I needed to bring up Waymo. I need to because I need to ask you guys, I'm not here to do my normal ripping, guys. I don't have videos, I'm not gonna slam them today. That's not what this is. I want to know what these guys' take on Waymo is because now seeing Waymo's in Denver, and I'm talking there's four, they're not allowed to take passengers, they have a driver in them. Um, so you barely ever see them. Number one, it's it's all fake, it's all PR stunts and BS. They they don't work, they're re they're on their their fifth recall, and they already have a sixth and seventh recall issued, so they're fixing the software and they're putting it back on the road before they recall it again. Like, why don't you just fix it all?
SPEAKER_01You're talking about the ones just in Denver or all of them.
SPEAKER_00All dude, they had what I mean, whatever it was like 30 third. Yeah, it was their whole fleet. Oh, I don't I don't remember seeing any. I mean, I I the the last the rec the the fifth recall that I'm talking about that had all of them recalled is because of the school buses. You guys have talked about that. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So of course, I'm sure everybody's seen the story where the they had the uh power outage in LA the other day, and all the stoplights went out, and the Waymos had no idea what to do, so they had to send people out there physically to drive them back.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, that's I mean, that's terrible. Like this, you wouldn't happen with a human driver. We could navigate that, right?
SPEAKER_00But don't you think that again? I mean okay, I have to rip a little because because honestly, like Waymo, like they're talking about they're putting these out in the public, and yes, they're not in the masses. I when I was flying to Austin all the time, I saw there, and there has probably the most in San Francisco and LA might have more or Phoenix, but Austin isn't the biggest town, so you notice them more.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, they're you see them all over the place.
SPEAKER_00Um, and they're all they're also all beat up. Whenever you guys see a picture of one that's nice, no, they have like dents in them, and the lidars like crooked, and it they're all beat up. But like in cities like this, or what Larry's talking about, like a school bus puts the I mean, I was saying that I could put my son into the car before he'd ever drove one, tell him to just drive. I don't know how to drive, just drive down the street, I don't care. Even he would know at a stop bus to stop. It blinks, a stop sign pops out, it's yellow, there's lights. Like that is, I mean, it should be coded in, but that's number one. That's just I mean, how are you having this issue? Why is this a problem?
SPEAKER_01That's embarrassing because you're right. I mean, it's a red light. I was like, hmm, any other place that I see a red light in my life, in the world, we stop, especially flashing, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then same thing in Phoenix uh Scottsdale area, they evade police, they've been doing this since for three years now, you know. I mean, so like they have an issue with authority for one, and we all we all do, but they're robots, dude. Yeah, this is what my problem with the robot apocalypse is, is because we're all gonna say what Larry just said. Well, they're you know, don't we all like, but they're not one of us, no robot, dude. They shouldn't be thinking, they should just be thinking how to do their job.
SPEAKER_01I actually don't think the cars are as robotic that you think they are, like that you're worried about. I personally don't think that is. I don't think there's super a ton of stuff in there that's to the point where like they're gonna start thinking from themselves.
SPEAKER_00I I honestly don't no, no, no, no, no, no. But their learning modules aren't learning. I mean, clearly, yeah, that's the school bus thing alone should be transmitting back to the entire Waymo network. This is a must. All of you need to do this. If you see a yellow bus, these weird buses with little people on them, stop. Just stop. Yeah, it doesn't seem difficult.
SPEAKER_02It does not, yeah. I mean, it's a big, giant yellow vehicle. Uh, it's not like you're gonna mistake it for something else and then throw the flashing red light out there on top of that. It should not be that hard to program that in.
SPEAKER_00And to go to what Larry was saying about the LA thing, like during a power outage, why wouldn't the Waymo just self-retreat back to its charging station?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't understand that either. They got vacuums that uh vacuum your floor that when the battery gets low, it goes back to the charging station.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, any any like why is it wandering around going, hey? Where's everybody? So what what happened?
SPEAKER_01So, what was the issue with them? Because they obviously have their own power.
SPEAKER_02What do they think the street light that this there were no street lights? So it couldn't so that it didn't know what to do with traffic and and the intersection. Well, you treat it like a four-way stop. Well, we know that. Well, why isn't that not coded in?
SPEAKER_00Obviously, they don't because they didn't causing traffic jams where they had to have on-site some of the people who monitor from the monitoring stations had to go on-site who'd never have to go on site because
Waymo Arrives: Recalls, PR, And Safety Gaps
SPEAKER_00their on-site teams were all booked. Yeah, that's embarrassing. And like they basically, you know, it's like one of those things we've seen it before, like they triangulate or whatever, and they they can't move. Literally, it's like you can't figure this one out. You pull out, and then the other two can go, and they just kind of sit there and go back. Like, it's embarrassing that they have to have somebody come and manually push it out of the road. But don't they go cars?
SPEAKER_01Don't they navigate that when they're at a light and it's blink, it's blinking left, they're in the turn lane and they have to wait for cars. Can't they navigate a four-way stop? Right.
SPEAKER_02Logically, if there's no power, you you would think it'd just be like roads where there's no stoplights. People figure it out. Like a stop, something happened and it didn't because they shut down.
SPEAKER_00I mean, we have we have them, you know, like um other cities are starting to talk about highway stuff. So you see it, but it's been in Arizona for a while. They can get on the highway. And in on the highway, there's one highway that's four lanes, and a lot of the reports that were written up by police officers are that if it's in the left lane, so the the faster lane, yeah, of of either north or south on this highway, then there's a double bar. There's never a time where it's like or or double line. There's never a time where it's okay to take a left off. It's a highway. And the Waymos get behind cars in that in the faster lane and go around them in the oncoming traffic lane. They'll pass them on the left. I mean, it's it's stuff like this where I'm like, this is you can't be in public. You cannot, this is this is not acceptable testing, as they call it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's like there's such a push to get them out there. Like, well, we'll get them out there and then we'll fix stuff. Yeah, it's like it's like all you know, these companies with software all the time. They're it's they're they just want to be first. We don't have to be the best, we just have to be the first. We can fix it and patch it later, but let's just start out there or sell it.
SPEAKER_00Watch, it's not in 10 years, it's not gonna be there. Is gonna be no Waymo. Waymo's gonna be owned by somebody else, and the company Waymo is gonna have a ton of money from the data that they made scanning cities and things like that. But they're not when I see them, I don't even, and when I've been in them, I don't even feel like that they're worthy of like being a car. First of all, it's a hundred and fifty thousand dollar car, it's a two hundred and forty thousand dollar uh package to have the LiDAR and the sensors and the uh I mean you're talking about close to a half a million dollar car, and in Arizona, they got the Waymo's doing two dollar door dashes, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then what's that? You have you have something, something, uh, some kind of protest or something, and they just destroy them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they they have the dots, those things that look like the little red cars for kids. You guys have seen them, yeah. But they also are using the Waymo technology again. This is why I say it's PR, because are is anybody in the world supposed to believe that a two-dollar no-tip DoorDash order is gonna be you can do two an hour. Yeah, we all know this. Yeah, so four bucks an hour, you're gonna pay that Waymo off.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, it does.
SPEAKER_00It's a half a million dollars, guys.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00We we we I'm sorry, that's just not true. It does, it does not compute. Um, but yeah, I mean it's it's it just it everything they do is just PR. Like hear them having four, and then in March, they will have been here six months and they'll be able to apply for passenger license. If they get that, they'll still have a fleet of under 10.
SPEAKER_02Really?
SPEAKER_00When you're talking about like the percentage, it's like 0.000001% of um of US rides are are done through Waymo.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, of course. It seems bigger because we're seeing it all over the news and stuff like that. But yeah, it is still a small portion.
SPEAKER_00And and that's and that's my point. As they release to like they say, we're in Detroit, we're in Philly, and yeah, they're in Nashville. And they're they only have four of them or five of them here mapping, they're not really here, but even the ones here are having issues. That's a bad sign. And as they keep expanding, even with four or five mark, like testing the market, yeah, they're finding they're gonna get more and more bad PR. It's always been good PR, but I think they're I think they're into a new wave of they're gonna get a lot of bad PR, like that bus thing. They hit a kid, watch watch this thing go nuts. Yeah, if they hit quick, yeah. I mean, they killed that cat. Wow, and I mean, people took that too far, even for San Francisco people. Like, I love you, California, but I'm just saying bro, you're just killing like a big portion of your audience. They know that they know that's how I feel.
SPEAKER_01But like, are you when it comes to Waymo, though, like are you totally against it? Are you just saying you don't think it's ready for mainstream?
SPEAKER_00Man, I've I this might even come back to you. I have said forever, forever. You you got so much land between like if you guys know the line of Phoenix down to Tucson, Arizona, from that highway all the way to the California border is just nothing. Like, why what they're trying to test in in Phoenix, it's nothing. Go build a city and let every autonomous vehicle company that ever wants a license in the United States operate there, make them all operate at once to see if they even can work together.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but they need they need people, they need they need why cats crossing two dollar deliveries for DoorDash. No, but they need people crossing the street, jaywalking, they need those.
SPEAKER_00You can have that all be in that city. Just have like um remember the movie with Will Smith where the so that they got the monsters pop up and then the little girl with the ice cream cone, and yeah, you know, you just have things pop up and do things, like the little training cities they do for the police officer, you know, like fake fake weather on a road. Well, they should hire Mr.
SPEAKER_01Beast from the Beast games. He created a whole damn city for that freaking show. They should hire him. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I don't know. The beast mobiles. What I don't think is by no means I I mean, first of all, they don't meet any standards. They don't. The LiDAR is a three-year life, and we know that after like a year, it actually, if it has dust or or tough weather, it has a harder time reading, and that's what's gonna see a kid running across the road or something. Yeah, but so all the parts it, they're just they're just wastes of money at this point. So, again, why not just I mean, you shouldn't be live testing, you're not ready. I mean, it it doesn't understand a school bus, it should not be on the road.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I agree with you on that, but I mean, the for the most part, it's pretty safe.
SPEAKER_00I mean, because there's so few. When you look at the grand scale, it seems safe because there's so few.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but they're doing so many rides a week in San Francisco, they're doing like 200,000 rides a week.
unknownI don't know.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it you you say there's so few, but two, I mean, I don't know if that's the exact stat, but it's an insane amount of rides in San Francisco, and they're pretty. I mean, they're I they don't have the incidents.
SPEAKER_00There's but the but but do remember too, the San Francisco Waymo's work on a routing system, so you can't get uh you can't get from this place, like their bar districts or whatever. Well you pick up here, you can't get to your house door, you can get three blocks from it where it drops you off.
SPEAKER_01Oh, interesting. I know it had it.
SPEAKER_00They're like they're like bus routes, and the mayor, the police chief, and the fire department and the fire chief all want them out of the city. Well, of course, especially when you see the videos of them just sitting there with their dicks in their hands, not literally, because they're but also it should it should be a big it should be a big eye-opener to everybody that um uh they're self-insured, they can't find an insurance company to understand what they're doing. Um, they fought the DMV. We all have our public records out there on the DMV. Everything about us has to be out there because of trade secrets. They sued the California DMV and they're not allowed to have or make their uh or make their data public to people. Yet they are driving on public streets, and every other person on a public street is in the database of the DMV.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that is strange. I mean, money talks.
SPEAKER_00I mean, this is a this is a supreme California court case that they won in 2022. That's because they said no, we're gonna sue the DMB, and they said what?
SPEAKER_01And they and they want to that's because Newsom wants to uh you know, he wants it to happen there. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00I'm just saying that the briefcases of money, I mean if you you know, the term follow the money, follow the money with these things, but all the places where they are, the governments even here took major briefcases of money. Sure. You know, yeah. I mean, you basically and I'm sure they're given dossies, they're not like, hey, look at this thing's awesome and it works great. It's like this is kind of trash and it's risky for your people, but we have a lot of money. Oh Babasou Newsco, Governor Newsco. Come on now, that's our next president. I mean, I I think the I think the pro look, the problem is that you know it doesn't matter right left, California's being run really poorly and has been for a long time. Run into the ground out there, even the people I know out there say that. So I'm not even I'm not dissing on them. No, there's a lot of taxes.
SPEAKER_01There's a lot of taxes out there, that's why I don't like it.
SPEAKER_00Um, but anyway, I just wanted to talk about the Waymo thing because I I find it interesting. I'm so sick of every day hearing about it because I feel like any day they want news, they just call up any of their affiliate news media teams and say, Hey, we put one more Waymo in Atlanta, and they're like, We'll run it in 13 papers tomorrow.
SPEAKER_01Well, of course, because it gets clicks, right? I don't think they're like hard products, I don't think they got hard-ons for autonomous vehicles. I just think it's just the hot topic and it gets clicks.
SPEAKER_00Oh, absolutely, and dude, often they're not even like if a writer, I know this from Denver writers, if they turn in a story, let's not. I mean, almost every newspaper still does this. There's an editor above that writer who often just red line or blacklines everything you wrote. You do you can't say bad stuff about them, but they're killing people, yeah. But they give us money, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, the news has been like that for the last 30 years, right? I know. I mean, I'm just saying that that's not anything new.
SPEAKER_00We do need a better gauge than media on where autonomous is because they're lying their asses off.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, just like Uber did, just like you know, the all the shit that they were doing to try to get into the markets and stuff like that. Waymo's gonna do the same thing. If you got the money, you can do it. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it doesn't surprise me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So but to know, but to what scale? You know, even Derek Kashishaue said what it at best, 40% of the US fleet by 2035. That's 10 years from now. He used to say all of the cars
Power Outages, Four-Way Stops, And AV Logic
SPEAKER_00next year for years. All of the cars are saying 10 years from now, 40% of the fleet, which I think he even knows won't be. When you say 40% of the fleet, what do you mean? 40% of rideshare rides in the US will be done by autonomous vehicles. But again, that's a stab in the dark.
SPEAKER_01He doesn't know I don't even think 40 is good in the next 10 years.
SPEAKER_02I don't even think that's gonna be yeah, that stuff can change so much. I mean, we have one one kid. You hit one kid and you just lost five years, but even that, just the tide of uh people's thinking. Like here, there's a place here about an hour uh north of here on I 65. It's called Glendale. They they built these two humongous electric battery plants, humongous. The state gave them so much tax incentives, they're like, we're gonna hire 2,200 people. They started operations. Four months ago, last week they laid everybody off, 1,600 people. They decide, oh, guess what? We're gonna we're not gonna do electric batteries. We're gonna switch over, we're gonna do batteries for data centers.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because of the way the electric car market's going. And stuff like that attitude can change. That's a good point. The home market.
SPEAKER_00Dude, I'm I'm I'm right there with you on that one because these, in fact, the data center thing is scaring me a bit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna be honest, because I feel like I feel like it's like everything else we've been doing lately. Like they're just like, well, we should put everything into this. We barely tried it, dude. Are you sure?
SPEAKER_01That's such a good point. I agree. Like we did electric cars, and and I'm a fan, but you're right. They have one, okay, we're gonna do this, and now it's data centers. And like, we're even even by by us, like 20 minutes from me. There's Microsoft.
SPEAKER_00There was a big one, I think, going up near you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Microsoft bought all this land and they're fighting it, which I I mean it's not in my area, but I mean I would fight it too. Like, I mean, I like I like I think we need it, but why? And and you know, Larry and I talked this. Why aren't we putting this in the desert? Okay, I know it needs a lot of water, blah, blah, blah. Don't tell me the logistics about it, but like, why are we putting these in our backyard?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. They had a big fight in the city council meeting, uh, the town just south of here, it's like 15, 20 miles from here. It's called Franklin's where my mom and and sister live. And uh, they're trying to build a data center down there. And yeah, it was a huge fight, and uh, it's still undecided.
SPEAKER_01Well, of course, and the problem is we're not gonna win because the money talks, just back to the money talks. The the city's like, oh, we're getting this much in tax revenue? Like in the past, well, yeah, you're gonna have a great area because of all the money you're making, but you know, everyone can't take a shower because there's no water pressure in our bill. I don't understand though. Like, do you know the logistics when people say that their electricity is gonna go like why we would be bearing the cost of electricity? Is it because of they have to upgrade all the the shit around it to make it work?
SPEAKER_02We probably have to upgrade power, and then I mean, uh you know, there's a finite amount, and so you have to start charging more to I was also gonna just say, too, they also lie in the recoup process.
SPEAKER_00Well, of course, you know, they got to recoup the cost of that quadrillion dollar mega plant they're building by you, yeah. So therefore, energy is twice as much. Why? I thought this was gonna help because just don't worry about it.
SPEAKER_01I'm not supposed to ask that question. Well, even your guy in the chat, you know, everyone has a story, they're trying to build one. Like Larry had one, I had one, this guy has one. Like, nope, it is why is it happening so freaking quick where all of a sudden this is what we're putting all our money into is these data centers.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. No, this is Brian just outside of Pittsburgh, and I actually know about some of those ones in Pennsylvania. I was watching some of these farmers and stuff who are gonna they're like, I don't even get it because it's not where they are, it's over here, but they're gonna need to rip through their farm, and there's gonna be like some radiation issue, and like yeah, that's it's like I so I can't find your radiation. So is what you're saying.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I think I think what I worry about is just the resources. The I don't mind having a building in my area, but like if it's gonna use so much water and so much electricity and that falls on us to to pick up the slack, I mean that's not fair.
SPEAKER_00But we do, but these are the kind of things you gotta keep an eye on, too, because you don't want like I hear you, you don't I don't mind the building. You do when a there's when one turns into 10 in your state, yeah, and they're kind of everywhere and they're getting bigger and they're knocking down the trees and the beauty of Michigan. Yeah, I mean I'm you know, and you're like, what is this crap?
SPEAKER_01At least the Microsoft one, it is in the little bit of the boonies, so there's really nothing there.
SPEAKER_00But I mean, yeah, yeah, he says to get their foot in the door, yeah. But again, it's but again, it's just the start of something. Yeah, this is to power AI, this is to power, this is why I was saying, and we're gonna move into this right here is the cost of data. This is why I brought up the idea to you last week, and I'm I'm glad that I get to throw it by Larry too, because um I'd been talking about this for a while, nobody else wanted to talk about this. I know a couple people had heard things and they're like, that's never gonna happen. But dash now for all do you guys know this? This has already been rolling out, it's gonna be in every market before the end of the year, it was supposed to be February, but um, so you'll just be able to dash now anytime, right? Like Uber, yeah, right. Um, and I've been saying that for a while. That the obviously I'm somebody who pushes on the metrics need to be gone. I need to tell you guys that, but um so I honestly believe that this is the way though. This is the way to um everybody's like the oversaturational triple overnight, yeah, but it'll go down quicker too, because people won't wait out making nothing. Yes. You know, Jason and I were talking about it last week, and so like my idea is that my idea partially that I'm gonna get into here is that it kind of pushes some people back to W2 that I think no offense to anybody that I think belong in W2. Agreed.
SPEAKER_02100%.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, I don't know if you were able to watch Larry, but the the bottom line with it is that so part of the reason that my idea had one issue was because Dash Now for everybody wasn't a thing before. You had to be the tiers, and that was what was going to interfere. Well, with it gone, why not just have the company take a cap? So let's say that they have 3,000 active drivers in Denver. I'm using again arbitrary numbers, but I'm a little more dialed today. So 3,000 drivers in the Denver metro area for DoorDash.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_00On any given Friday night, they have 1,400 on. The company knows they could have done that night with 700. Easy. They're just like, and it wouldn't have even caused anything more than a minute here or there because a lot of people just sit and get nothing. So why not have? I mean, some cities have done this with taxis in the past. Why not have a limit? And it's a floating limit, you know, Monday through Thursday or Wednesday or this, Thursday's bar night, increase it a little, Friday, Saturday. If there's holidays, if there's festivals, if there's conventions in town, you would have to tweak this at all times. But why not have that limit of saying we'll only have a thousand cars on the road? Um, or on a given night, you know, if if if the state and and Uber or the data is like, well, 700 is about what we know we need. Okay, then we'll allow you a thousand. We'll allow you to be over a bit.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But now by doing that, you now just took out two-thirds of the people that you would be sending bad data to. And bad data is an order that gets passed up 15 times, a two-dollar no-tip order. Yeah, that's going seven miles that 15 people say no to. Data cost is going to be triple next year. So I have even talked, everybody always says drop in the bucket, referring to these companies. It's a drop in the bucket to them, the millions of dollars they just paid to Chicago or to the 26 million to the city of Seattle. Guys, these add up, these are not drop in the buckets anymore. These companies can't survive if lawsuits like these pop off all the time. Um, and so if you have a if you have this limiter and it's real time. So if you're multi-apping and you're on DoorDash and you're like, Oh, I haven't got one in a minute. Oh, there's an Uber Eats, I'm gonna take that. You've now left the pool of DoorDash. So there becomes an open spot. Somebody opens the app that minute, they can get on. So now you might finish the Uber Eats, you might not be able to get right back on. Maybe you can in 10 minutes, maybe you can't for a half hour, maybe you can't the rest of the night. Maybe you just stay on DoorDash.
Costs, Insurance, And Public Trust In AVs
SPEAKER_00But regardless, you have a smaller base of drivers providing a better service because when people make more money, and they will, they would they're gonna do a lot better of a job. People when they're mad are are and it's not okay, but they're bare spraying mace onto bags. So I mean it's not okay. But I mean, but the bottom line is is like you know, if if you if they reduce the data cost by one by 30 or by 60 percent, they can afford to make five six dollar base pay orders.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you think but that you you would think that it would trickle down, but it's not gonna, they're just gonna put it in their checkbook because people are already taking the two dollars.
SPEAKER_00There would be room for five dollar base pay orders, and they still make more money.
SPEAKER_01I know there would be, but they're not gonna no.
SPEAKER_00I mean, they still would make more. I know, but they got to do something for the drivers here. I mean, I know that we always say that, and then we're like, but they won't. They really I know enough lawmakers I'm speaking with. I know these lawsuits, like the 21 states suing Uber One right now. Um, that's no joke. Like, that's those used to be the states that wouldn't sue Uber because they're in bed with them and they provide free trips to voting and people's doctors' visits and this, that, and the other. So they used to be like, Oh, we you do do us those favors. And now it's like, yeah, we're being paid a lot more to go against you now.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So they kind of have to, and that's why this leg legislation's all over the place. Like, I've seen bad, good ones I'm indifferent about, but they're regardless, they're coming down to the point of it's all about money and and politics, whether you're scumbag politician or trying to be a good one, it doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_01So, why do you want the government involved in all this?
SPEAKER_00Well, they're already in it, doesn't matter, they're involved. There's RICO cases, there's FTC lawsuits, there's well, yeah.
SPEAKER_01When people are I understand it when they're breaking the law, they have to be in law be involved, but like I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's that's the so the people I talk to, that's the main thing. Either either change the status of your drivers or or allow them everything they're allowed by our state's labor code as an independent contractor.
SPEAKER_01Larry, what do you think of this idea? Because like Steve and I talked about it when you were uh MIA. Well, you know, you weren't missing an action because I knew where you were. But um, what do you what do you think about the limiter thing? I mean, just with Steve's numbers.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's it's one of those things I've really got to wrap my mind around just because for so long as gig workers were like, no, we don't want limits, we don't there's no reason for you to be putting limits on us. Why you know why would they want it? You you want as many, they should want as many people as available to get it as fast as they can.
SPEAKER_00Uh but like for my city, which is huge, I definitely don't need to see a dasher who's been out for three hours and hasn't seen one order. Putting so many on the road, there's not the volume of orders anymore. So some of them sit there forever and see not even ones they pass, they just don't see any well. The volume is because there's too many drivers, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah, it um yeah, it's a it's a very interesting concept. Um and and you said this just got released here recently across the country as far as being able to get online. Yeah, I mean every day I'm hearing more cities, and yeah, we we we actually were talking about that a few months ago because we started seeing a little bit of that. Like I used to never be able to get on unless it was right prime, you know, prime time lunch hour or dinner hour, and then then I on some weekends I noticed I'd turn it on and I was able to get right on. Um, but yeah, it's it's a very interesting concept as far as uh you know here's the other part.
SPEAKER_00Here's the other part, Larry, that I need to add. It's the last part. So the kicker here is that some of the legislators I'm talking to, because of what they are starting to, and I hate this term because if they start using it wrong, it's gonna be a problem for everybody, which is misclassified misclassified employee. That's how some of the lawmakers refer to us now, really. Yeah, I mean, obviously, we can see why.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we're not 1099.
SPEAKER_00I mean, we truly aren't. I mean, it it never was created as a hybrid, they just literally stamped independent contractor on it and was like, Yeah, you're one of those. No, yeah, if you go through the any states law about it, no, we're not.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they just didn't have anything better, didn't have another term, right?
SPEAKER_00But you can't just you can't just wing it, you can't just sit in limbo and be like, Well, we're just here. So, you know, it's it's about meeting in the middle, but but here's my point. I honestly don't think that like they're cleaning up the illegals issue, and I mean that is in anybody who's people deactivated who buy another Facebook account illegally for DoorDash, any of those, they're getting better about it, and they're still onboarding like crazy. My thing, and I was telling Jason, every app today, right now, start a wait list because there's no need for a DoorDasher in Denver right now. There is zero need. If you do get put on, you will be fighting to. I mean, well, I shouldn't have used Denver because we already had the transparency, but any most states like you would be put on, you'd be scheduling some shifts, you're watching YouTube, seeing how to make money. Maybe you're not, but you know, if you're doing it full time and you're hearing these people making money and all this, that, and the other, and you're like, I guess I'm just paying my dues, like I can get this shift on this day. And if you can just dash now and get on, you're gonna most likely many people coming from W-2 aren't gonna be on for the month that they've been on, they're gonna be on two, three days before they're like, dude, I this is a joke, yeah. Like some of us can make it work. I'm not calling it that for everybody, but if if you're new to this, it would feel like a joke, I would think.
SPEAKER_01Well, it only works if you're willing to hustle like Gabe does, like and and have many apps and just be an expert in all those apps. You can't, I mean, it wouldn't be it'd go back to the the way, or it wouldn't be like you know, how we see people like, oh my god, I just got deactivated from Uber. That's all I do, that's my life. You wouldn't see that anymore because you couldn't do that, otherwise, you wouldn't make any money.
SPEAKER_02And and you do, yeah, you have to work smart, you have to learn your market and learn how what works and what doesn't. And and you you know, people go on and they they want somebody else to tell them, okay, what I do, how am I successful at this? We I don't know. You're in a different, completely different market. Your situation is completely different from what it is here in bowling green. What I do is not what's gonna necessarily work for you. What works for you is not gonna work for me, and so many people you know want that. They want they want to be able to log in. Okay, this is something new. I want to try this gig work thing. What do I need to do? How can I be successful? How can I go make a thousand dollars this next month? Guess what? You're probably not going to your first week making doing gig work, you're just probably not, you know, and if and if by chance you do, you got played by the app anyway.
SPEAKER_00And I hate to say that. Right, yeah, that's very true, too.
SPEAKER_02Because they will they will they will front load you with good stuff for sure. There is no doubt about that.
SPEAKER_00So, but my thing is is if you wait list, and I was saying this to Jason at first, he I don't think he liked the idea, but I think you came around a little and in the term in terms of the fact that by doing the wait list, like let's say, because you know, I was telling Jason that the jobs in America have gone down. We've you know, over the last few years we've lost like 20 million working adults. We're at like about 150 million plus, the 9 million gig app workers have have translated into 28.5 million, whether part-time or full-time, doesn't matter. And then 76 million, including the gig workers, are independent contractors. So now almost half of the working adults are self-employed. So if you're we had all those problems in the past years, they're cleaning it up. You have more, you have three times the amount of drivers you need in any given city, probably. I mean, if if you're maybe you're gonna put one city that it's not, I don't know, but I would guess that pretty easily. Um, if they wait, if they start wait listing people, I'm not saying you need to do it forever, you do it till you have a need to bring on some more people. Yeah, but you're gonna do these people a favor, they're not they're actually gonna think better of you. And the white collar people aren't gonna wait until that list opens up for that job, they're gonna go get another job.
SPEAKER_02You know, I I mean, I don't conceptually I don't have much any really big problem with wait listing. I mean, some of the apps that we've used, we've waitlisted for things before, uh, whether
From AVs To Data Centers: Who Pays The Bill
SPEAKER_02you know whether it's uh uh food, food delivery or something like that. Um I know a lot of Walmart Spark, you know, people have been on wait lists are shipped, seems to be one that people get waitlisted a lot. Uh so yeah, I don't think it's I don't think it's that big of a deal, especially if it's gonna make if it's surely gonna make things better for the gay workers. Yeah, that's that's what it boils down to for me. What's gonna make it better for us? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think, and that's part of the argument that I have is that I've so lawmakers, depending on the state and city, especially, like if it's a blue, if it's super blue, you're gonna have a lot of green politicians, green friendly. Those politicians are aware that there's three to ten times as many delivery vehicles on the road at any given time. Yeah, so again, you win that battle too, you win that crowd of your constituents. Because you can say we just knocked down the number of DoorDash drivers allowed to be perched through your neighborhood.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because I'm outside your house to when Uber was first out, they were talking about how much it was gonna clear the congestion on the roads because you know you everybody was gonna be sharing rides, and that's such a god, it's so much worse shit. Yeah, yeah, you got 10 times as many cars. You look out there, and then you know, nine of every 10 is an Uber Lyft driver downtown.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, that's that's my point, though, is that by doing that, I mean, like in the cities that used to, I know the taxi industry isn't the best example because it's gone pretty much. But I mean, they did do the were the cities where they did that, they did it right. Like, and they did it in Fort Lauderdale, which is a big city, and they had a cap on how many cabs could be on the road on any given night, yeah. And it worked, it solved a lot of the problems they were having in the late 80s when they did it.
SPEAKER_01Do you think it's hard for them to that would be hard for them to pull that back? Because in any anything you make new is fine, but once you like have to pull something back, like, oh, by the way, remember when you used to do that? We're not doing you, don't you think that's gonna be so hard?
SPEAKER_00Well, what do you think they're gonna do about dash now for all in regards to if it doesn't work? They tried it in five test cities, now it's in 50 and it's gonna be everywhere in a week.
SPEAKER_01Well, I don't know how it's not gonna work. I'm I'm I'm I'm surprised that they hadn't done it sooner.
SPEAKER_00I mean, that I thought because there's because there's one aspect of in here, I don't dash enough, first of all, and I'm glad about that because if I need the money, DoorDash becomes into my arsenal. But yeah, I tell people this all the time five percent of my income a year is DoorDash. I I'm not one of the people I'm less than mine a lot through DoorDash. So much less for me. I mean, but you know, if I get out there, I'll go do it for a bit or whatever. But um I I don't know. I I there's just so many drivers out there now who cannot earn. I mean, they're not lying to me when they tell me either, they're not being the old school lazy drivers who just don't want to go out. I know drivers who can't earn, literally. They're not doing it wrong, they're not in the wrong fishing holes, they're just in the wrong city. I know about it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_00I hint other apps to them. I'm like, dude, I I live here too. Try these B2Bs or try this. You know, I I make I make half of my money every day on or sometimes on one catering. So get on other stuff, dude, because no, you can't do DoorDash and make a living here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I mean, and and it's the same thing that the taxi industry went through. Times are changing. I don't drive nearly as much as I used to because it's not worth it. Well, it's not what it used to be. I can't make the money I used to make, and I'm not gonna wear my car out and and spend that time away from my family if it's not worth it to me. And so, yeah, things, things are always gonna be have to be adjusted. And you know, if we won't try, I'm I'm perfectly fine with them trying to cap seeing if that does make things better with us.
SPEAKER_00If it doesn't, change because the other thing is it would make a lot of politicians. Happy who would back off. So if you're wondering where is the incentive to them, first of all, they can make more money. The company can make more money and skim a little to the drivers. Okay, there's they let's say that they need to make twice as much as they're gonna give the drivers more than they're making now. It's probably still doable. So they can still practice scumbaggery, but they can dish a little to the drivers, make it a little better. Um, it makes people fight for it. I think the part-timers who only do a Friday night occasionally are gonna get on there and go, I can't get on, they're just gonna stop, which is probably good. Because I hear you, Larry. Me, you and Jason have all been doing this about the same amount of time. And these days, I don't have sometimes the same motivation, and it's not out of laziness to get out there. Like if I have a catering set up on expedite the next day, that'll be when I get out and get working. Right, I'll go do that catering and then I'll turn on the apps, I'll see how it's going. Hopefully, I get going quick. If not, I might get a little, I might go home for a bit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. I used to go out, I mean, consistently, consistently. I would be out, you know, usually at least four four nights a week, if not five nights a week. And then it's it's tapered down to a lot of times it's two nights a week. And I mean, I don't I'm not sure if I've been out since Thanksgiving, but that's for a different reason, right?
SPEAKER_00Um, so but it's like but it's like pricing all of our stuff, like our cars, Jason's car, my car, your car. Like, yeah, you gotta take all that in. It's like, dude, I don't want to take my car out. Like you know, traffic's up. I know I'm not gonna make anything. And I'm not being just negative, and you know, this is just the reality I face. I know the times when I shouldn't go out. Yeah, and I I I enjoy a bit about that. It's not like I don't go out on those times, and then somebody like Tony or the Dream Dan or somebody calls me and goes, dude, you should have been working. We killed it. Like, it doesn't happen like that. Like, if I'm not working, it's because it's not sure workable.
SPEAKER_02And and again, like I said, it's not it's not because we're lazy. And I like rideshare, I I've I thoroughly love doing rideshare. I love love interacting with the people and and talking with them and getting to know them and all that. So I I have a lot of fun when I'm out working. And for me not to go out, like it has to be, you know, it's it's really bad. It's not just because of the money, it's it's uh you know, it's just not you know, it's just not worth everything anymore that you have to put into it sometimes.
SPEAKER_01Larry, did you hear yesterday I was out doing some ride share? No, yeah, I did man.
SPEAKER_02I thought I felt a disturbance in the forest.
SPEAKER_01I did three. Did I do three rides? I think I may have done three rides.
SPEAKER_02Did you get a bonus offer or something?
SPEAKER_01What's up? Did you get a bonus offer or you know a quest? It was no, it was slow, it was slow on Spark and Uber Eats, and I said to myself, I'm not gonna take anything without a surge, or like, because now they give you the pricing on there, that's less than 30 an hour. And then I did three rides, three Uber rides, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Look at that. Picking up my slack.
SPEAKER_01I know, like you're you're gone for since Thanksgiving, and I'm doing fucking Uber rides. Oh man.
SPEAKER_00Who the thunk is three Uber rides in front of you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no kidding. That's I like that, Steve. Yeah, I'm looking at the game to Bumper now.
SPEAKER_02Like I'm like I'm on Christmas Eve. I'm gonna have to go out and do four Uber rides. Just so because I can't let this stand, man.
unknownDamn.
SPEAKER_01Oh, and then Bubba's dude Jason got ahead. Okay, here's the here's the vulnerable moment. I um I forgot about the abrupt pricing. I mean, I didn't forget about it, but this gal that didn't speak English, or like, no, she spoke English, but it was her second language. She needed to go to the post office. And I was like, Well, you need to add it in the app. Well, I don't know how to do that. I was like, Oh, it's fine. I'll just take you down there. It was like one and a half miles, but she was down there for 15 minutes. Well, I got back, I didn't get paid any extra. Oh no. So she's good. I know. I'm like, what a noob. I'm such a noob. I should have said, Well, if you can't, I should have said, I'll take your phone if you're okay. Or I should have said, You gotta end this ride and let's request another one, and then I can take you. Yeah, but you're not gonna get paid. Yeah, and so thankfully she tipped me five bucks, but I'm like, Yeah, I really took it up to Keister there. I totally forgot because back in the day you used to be able to just like leave it on and drive around and yeah, yeah, you you would get paid. Yeah, it didn't matter. And I got I got a warning from Uber to not do that or get deactivated. I'm like, Jesus Christ, I was trying to do the right thing.
SPEAKER_02That's what you get, man. I know what you get for trying to do the right thing. No, no good.
SPEAKER_00What does a what does an Uber warning these days mean, though? Anyway, I mean, I'm not I hear about people being deactivated on DoorDash all the time. These days I haven't heard an Uber deactivation in a while, and I'm a van out here. Yeah, van's like the what van eats your food on live.
SPEAKER_02Nasty, nasty text messenger, nasty email. Yeah, have you been you've been speeding, or you know, but as a perfect driver as I am done with so what?
SPEAKER_00Stop bothering me.
SPEAKER_01As a perfect driver that I am I don't get warnings like that, so I was I was deeply saddened and hurt that I got that. Yeah, and that's how what I reviewed. Right, for sure. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00So I don't know if you guys heard this. I've been talking about it, and I want to put it to sleep because on I'm hoping that it gets on on your channel scene a little bit too, because on where is it on the December 12th, I have um Dave Cleary, uh, who is the owner of Big Red F Restaurant Group. I don't know if you guys have heard me talk about this or not. Um but this is really important. So this is in Boulder. Um Big Red F owns five of the nicest places in Boulder.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_00Boulders Boulder has 107,000 population of permanent residents, plus the University of Colorado when they're in session. That's additional. The Boulder County is a very is very small for a
Dash Now For All: Oversaturation Reality
SPEAKER_00county, and everybody from the county goes to Boulder for anything. That's 327,000 people. So we're not talking a small college town. This is a big city, yeah, big red F. And and they're the type of city that has a city council that like they decided Walmart can't be there, so there's no Walmart. Oh, they're like a banana republic type. People are always like, oh, the banana republic of Boulder, like telling people what the can and can't do. But Dave, I worked for Dave, Dave and his partner Beaver. Beaver passed away in 2002. Um, I I was a bartender from 1998 to 2001 in Boulder at uh the West End Tavern, which is the one that Beaver managed, and then Dave Cleary managed the other four because he's a chef too. But I know Dave from Christmas parties in Beaver and be passing away, but I know their businesses. They told on December 8th, they that was the day it had to happen. This isn't a future event, it's happened. Grubhub, Uber Eats, and DoorDash had to remove um all of their uh restaurants from the platforms and no scams, no no BS, they can't be showing up there at all to to to deliver. Um as soon as he did that. Now I I know Dave, we had been talking about this for a while. I was talking to him when I was before ParaWorks stopped about two years ago about the same thing. He's like, I hate these apps. So since then, that next that week, because it was a Tuesday, by Friday, he had three the next three largest restaurants in Boulder on board with him to the idea or to what they did. I'm gonna tell you here, and now they've got acquired like another three or four, but he's got a whole map of others that are gonna be coming on. Basically, all the good restaurants, other than like uh McDonald's, and yeah, and even in Boulder, there's only one because Boulder County or there's one McDonald's. There's one McDonald's. Are you kidding me? In Boulder City, Wendy Wendy's Wendy's used to have one, it got denied the day it got denied. A Taco Bell open because they had been waiting to have a Taco Bell there. So they have a par on fast food.
SPEAKER_02What the fuck? What is this? Yeah, Bowling Green. I mean, we're 80,000 and we've probably got like 12 McDonald's.
SPEAKER_00That's wild. I mean, it's it's just it's just how Boulder works.
SPEAKER_02It's how they rule with iron fists over there.
SPEAKER_00They don't like well, they don't like anything. If you if Jason wanted to come or you wanted to come and open up a restaurant, they would back you, help you, get you loans, everything.
SPEAKER_01Oh, because we're independent.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Uh but if you're corporate, they will burn you down and not let you in the city. Jesus. They and if you do make it, like you did like it. I remember it took Home Depot. This is uh 15 years, 20 years ago, but it took them like two to three years to get into Bull. Home Depot. That's wild. Yeah, that's crazy. So here's what happened though. On that, on the day that it was removed from the app, Dave said to DoorDash only. So Uber eats Grubhub, you have to get rid of all our shit. DoorDash, you do too. But here's what we're gonna do for you. You get to deliver all our food for free. We're gonna pay the drivers from Big Red F. People are gonna go to the website, and this will work in Boulder. And you need to know Boulder, but you go to the website if you want to go, if you want to order from Centro, one of their restaurants, or you know, whichever one you want to order from. You want to order food, you want to get tacos from Centro, you go to Centro's website, you put in your order, you're gonna get the you're gonna get sticker shocked because you're gonna get the menu prices. This is for delivery, and it's $4.95 to the driver for a delivery that's ten dollars or a thousand dollars plus plus tip. And here's the reason you will get tipped huge. Huge because they're giving you the in prices, there's no service fees. It's just a delivery fee that simple that even says paid to driver fully. So it says here's your total, which is what you'd pay if you went in to pick it up or if you went in to dine. It's gonna say that plus a 495 delivery fee, maybe taxes. I'm not sure how that'll work, but if that would be the only other line, so everything's gonna make total sense to you, then a tip. Big red F is gonna cut those checks directly to the people who are coming into their restaurants, but they've allowed DoorDash to put delivered by DoorDash. However, DoorDash does not get one cent and doesn't process the transactions. So to the people who going, well, they're gonna find a way, they don't have the access to the money on these.
SPEAKER_01You're gonna have to explain that to me again, like I'm a fifth grader.
SPEAKER_00I think Larry picked it up. Let's see if he got it.
SPEAKER_01No, I kind of get it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think so. I mean, it's to me, it's almost like we're going back to the to anybody that delivered before all the these companies came out. That's how it was basically done. Um, but everybody's jumped on the bandwagon with these apps, and like, well, they're on everybody else is on DoorDash and and Grubo and stuff, so we've got to get on this.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, um, but the DoorDash delivery drivers will still be getting the right through the delivery through the DoorDash app, even though the menu can't be listed.
SPEAKER_02Exactly.
SPEAKER_00So the DoorDash driver, unless they're looking at their payments specifically and see here's what I was paid by DoorDash last week, here's the big red F payment, and then they'll make they'll still make sense of it. But unless they're looking that closely, in the end of the week, they'll just see more money because they're gonna make more on the big red F offers that now will include non-big red F restaurants.
SPEAKER_01Here's the problem if if if if the customer can't do it on the app, they're not gonna do it.
SPEAKER_00Except in Boulder, they will. I'm telling you, dude.
SPEAKER_01Dude, I if they're rich fucks, they're not gonna want to do an extra step, they're gonna want to be have it as easy as possible, they're not gonna get want to get on their desktop.
SPEAKER_00Well, somehow, but somehow it's done, like I said, it's being tossed to the DoorDash app. So the app will provide the tracking and yeah, but you see, I mean, I'm not but they're not ordering through the app, right? That's the problem. Yeah, that's I don't know. I'm I I I I don't I'm not saying it would work in every city. I can tell you the next slated city, and that's why I'm glad you guys are here because the next slated city is Dave's best friend. His so I don't want to get into his history with women or men, but um his ex moved and he is and they are doing the same thing he is doing, running a a restaurant group in a college town, and they're gonna actually in three weeks be starting it there. That college town happens to be Ann Arbor, Michigan.
SPEAKER_01Interesting.
SPEAKER_00So what's happening is there's a trend here of you guys, because here was here was why, here was the kicker on why he had to do it, had to do it. This was no longer a decision. He said he said that um let me see if I have the uh like screenshots of his actual quotes. Because what he had said is that there's no way anymore to make these apps work from his perspective, because he said that on he didn't use Uber Eats, but he said on Grubhub and Doordash this year, he had gone all in on three of his locations. At those locations, the average uh percentage more or what he's losing on every food order is 28% to the platforms. The customers are paying 130 to 170 plus what they would pay to go in there, and the drivers are getting two dollar no tips. Interesting, the whole thing's broke.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, nobody's gone in except for the app.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. My point is I think some people look, if you look, I understand it's everything's a hard thing, but if you're talking about like, hey, you should come over here because we can save you two bucks, okay. No, I'm good. Even though the service sucks on this app, I'll just keep it. We can you can pay half for that food. What? Well, that's what we charge in the restaurant. You've just been ripped off for years, so yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, Bobby agrees with me, so fuck you. Game over, I guess. No, no, I I I definitely like the idea. Um I definitely like the idea, but again, it's so hard to pull people back. I mean, we always talk about new gigs or not new gigs, like new rideshare apps, new food apps. It's really hard to pull people away from DoorDash and stuff like that. And and and I know that's not what they were doing.
SPEAKER_02The inertia, it's just like the story we did that um that uh what was the percentage of people who don't don't check Lyft and Uber? They just you that they get they get tied to one of them. Yeah, it was like 80%. They don't check the price, yeah. Like 80% of them, and they talk about how many millions of dollars these
A Driver Cap Idea To Stabilize Markets
SPEAKER_02people have have overspent just because they won't even check the two rideshare apps. So that inertia, they get so tied to it.
SPEAKER_00But people in Boulder, like a high percentage of the food being ordered comes from big red F. If I'm going to Boulder, that's what I want, one of their own restaurants. Okay, so maybe it's in the app, maybe it says Centro or West End, or it says one of them, and you touch it and it takes you to the website and it says this will be delivered by DoorDash.
SPEAKER_02I'd love to, I'd love to revisit this in six months and see how it's going.
SPEAKER_00Oh, for sure. Yeah, I mean, that's my point. Legislation's going crazy. Jason's like, why do I want legislation? It's we're way past that. It's what how are we gonna deal with the legislation and who can we still talk to about making correct decisions because there's still lawmakers not decided on things.
SPEAKER_02It's become a shit show.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, and they understand that they can't they can't, they just know you can't have you can't lose 20 million workers in the United States, go from 170 million in 2021 to 150 million in or in I'm sorry, in 2020, to 150 million in 2023. Uh so you lost 20 million workers out of the three, what that's about half of the people in the US, maybe a little less. So half are working. 76% are independent contractors. That's now about half. Nine million that were gig app workers when it was 170 are now 28.5 million. You got to remember that these numbers aren't just arbitrary. This is very important because every state is getting is getting pummeled because of 28.5 million people being on these apps. They need people to be in W-2 jobs. Yeah, sure. I mean, they're not getting their tech their revenues, they're not getting. I mean, I I I don't mean anything against anybody, but gig app workers are not notorious for being awesome at taxes. Just saying, I've I've known people who play with the miles till they're cool with the number. Fuck.
SPEAKER_02I have no idea what you're talking about, Steve. No idea. Tips and tricks.
SPEAKER_01No, not doing it.
SPEAKER_00Do not want the Gestapo coming after me. No, but I mean, it's all this happening. I mean, Jeff, if you guys don't know, Mike dropped barbecue, and used to, he's on YouTube, he's great. He's been he's been telling people how and how to approach it, how to do it, and how to sell yourself. And he's very motivational. And he's telling people, man, get your own private rides. He just does ride share and he's like, I'm gonna show you how to get private rides because steal all of them, you all Uber and Left R4, stealing, stealing clients. You're a contractor, get get your butt out there and work, you know. And so, like, we got that going on, and it's not just him, there's other people now saying, get private rides, private rides. It's getting become known. People are getting Apple Pays set up and doing it. Josh is in the chat. He has he banks on his uh, he does private rides and catering, he makes his whole day out of those. He hopes he never has to turn Uber on.
SPEAKER_01Jeez, that's crazy. Well, it's great if you have insurance.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I'm my point is the apps are are the numbers are too high of the amount of people working, the numbers of people working in every state is too low, and it's not just because a job was killed off, but there's a lot of like convenience store and that type of stuff that is not being refilled.
SPEAKER_02Sure, yeah, and and because the apps, there's there's such a low barrier to entry. Um that you know, and people hear about it, they read about it all the time. And and a lot of it's our fault as gig workers because how many times do people go, you know, every day you see them online bragging about how much money they made, how easy it is, and this, that, and the other. So you get people who get laid off, like, well, I guess I'll do gig work because apparently I'll I can go out here and drive a car and make all the money I need to make, you know. Uh that's you know, we've we've kind of made it sound like that, or some people have for a long time now. So people just naturally fall into it, but it's not for everybody. It's definitely not for everybody. There's people who don't have the discipline, you know, don't have the the wherewithal. And people think, oh, it's just what are you doing? You're you're picking up somebody, you're dropping off. But there there is more to it than that. There is. You have to learn it, you have to work it as a business, you have to learn what nights are are best, the locations that are best. You have to learn how to deal with people and read their their mood and their attitude. Do they want to talk? Do they not want to talk? You know, there's a lot uh psychology that goes into it. You got to be a counselor a lot of times. You're you know, you're a therapist, you're a lot of things uh doing this kind of job. So it's definitely not for everybody. There are people who do not need to be their own boss.
SPEAKER_00No, and even in the W two realm, like bartender. That I've done. That is not for everybody. That is definitely not for everybody. And you and also, I've said this before, but whenever I get the chance, I say it, guys. Don't uh never ever ever go to bartending school. And if you did, don't admit it when you go in to get hired. Fuck. Because people just throw it away. I know this from working in the bars. They're like, this guy went to school. I already in rucker. But Bobby's comment, Bobby's in Louisiana. He's saying what's crazy, so I think he's a little he showed up just a little late is that W-2 will put hiring freezes out, but the like we were talking about, the apps just onboard, onboard, onboard, onboard forever. You know, that's part of the problem. So you need to stop, you need to plug the onboarding wait lists. No wait lists aren't an end. Wait lists are for the multi-apper, it's great. Okay, I'll wait till I'm on it. Like you, we like you said, we've all been on them and we we waited through them and we got on them. Yeah. Great. But to the person who just quit a W a W-2 of 25 years, has never been on his own boss. Yeah, that means I don't mean this mean, but he doesn't belong here. He's not gonna make money and he's gonna hate it. But what about why not just help him get back into the W-2?
SPEAKER_01But what do you say to the people that just they have a W-2 like us? Like Larry and I and and you, we have other work that that pays us regularly. What do you say to the people that just want to make extra money? You know what I mean? Is it fair to them that they can't get on the app all the time because it's full of people that are trying to work full-time?
SPEAKER_00So you know you know me, dude. I I am all about removal of all metrics. We have to be able to have all the same rights, all that kind of stuff. But is it? I mean, do we all have the same rights? Is it if they did a study in every city, does does anybody out on the road have the true ability to earn? Or does the oversaturation wreck that? And if they killed that down some, you might have an ability to earn again. Yeah, and the fighters would fight. The people who want to work would come out and work. True. The people who are lazy and maybe go out for an hour and go, it's slow, I'm done, or they have a W-2 and they're tired from the week, they don't feel like working it and they schedule those people would just start getting out. Like, just forget it, it's become so complicated. But here's the biggest thing about all of that as we wind it down. I will I just want to say this the takeaway should be that this so if it makes DoorDash more money, if it makes the drivers more money, even if it's a little more, you know, but it's less drivers out there, so more offers and better, even a little better offers or whatever it is. But it's making the company more they're meeting city requirements better. They get the they get at least half of the of the burden that they're gonna be sued in next year, because 2026 is gonna be a lawsuit year all the way to November of the elections because that's the midterms, all the way to the midterms. There's gonna be lawsuits dropped every month, um, and big ones. And so do these companies want that or do they want to finally do something, wouldn't hurt them, and they actually would get driver respect, they would get customer respect, and they would get partner business respect back some.
SPEAKER_01Boy, you're a fucking dreamer, Steve.
SPEAKER_00Am I or am I insanely smart?
SPEAKER_01No, well, I mean, I'm not gonna say insanely, I'll say you're smart.
SPEAKER_00Maybe maybe the insane part, right? Right. Bubba Sue. Win win win. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I don't hate it. I mean, as much as I like to argue, I don't hate it.
SPEAKER_00Honestly, I mean, so here's the bottom line.
SPEAKER_02Can this continue like this? No, we've got it. Something, something's gotta change. We we keep going down this road, it's gonna implode.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I mean, we've said it for a long time. It's it's declining, paid less. Move over to this app. Hey, this app's in the honeymoon period. Yeah, but the bottom line is it's it's coming down if they don't do something. Yeah, and that that was made apparent by the dash now by all or for everybody, by the way. Like they find after all the years of like top dash or not being enough. Let's have three tiers. Your emerald, your diamond, your elite, your your saran wrap, well, your Reynolds wrap. Like, you know, like I don't care, dude. I like and I even said there, I when they do, I said this months ago when I was first talking about this. I said when they do move to Dash for now for everybody, it's gonna be a burn, like, and I and I don't mean it mean, it's gonna be a hard pill to swallow for the people who keep those highest rates.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00Not and not by glitching or anything, but the people who actually keep those highest rates and like think that they matter and work for them. Yeah, you know, like they're gonna be like, dude, what are you doing? Are you kidding me? I'm I'm I'm I'm an emerald person. Yeah, and it's gonna be like, dude, I'm closest to pen, beat it. Sorry about your luck. I don't know. Yeah, so you guys look, I gotta I gotta let you plug it. I'm I'm here's how I'm gonna do it today. I figured something out. So Larry, plug the telegram group, telegram group.
SPEAKER_02Yes, our telegram group, that's how we communicate. It's uh telegram's just uh uh uh an app where you can text back and forth, but not only can you text, you can do voice and video messages, which we do a lot of voice messages. It's a lot easier when you're out in your car trying to drive. But uh join our telegram group. We have gig workers all over the country get in there and make some friends and not be so lonely when you're out working.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's like it's like Discord, but before Discord, I don't know what the advantages are of either. I'm not a big Discord guy either, so I'm just dude.
SPEAKER_01I love Discord, but I had my friend set it up. Well, Pete, you remember Pete, he was a host on the show. He set it up for me. I swear to god, I'm only 49, but it seems so complicated.
SPEAKER_02Telegram is very easy.
SPEAKER_01I'm like, fuck.
SPEAKER_00I just want to be able to do that. That's where I was gonna give that plug. Is that for those of you who who are like, why do I have a server? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Telegram is where we're go to go to uh go to Telegram. Telegram is so easy.
SPEAKER_01Bubba Sue used to be so quiet in there, now she runs her fucking mouth the whole time calling me names, telling me I'm mean, it's so bad.
SPEAKER_02Sometimes the truth is a cruel mistress.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's true. Sue's quiet until she knows you. That means she likes you. Yeah, I know. I know.
SPEAKER_02She loves Jason, man.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. No.
SPEAKER_02We have a lot of fun. We pick on each other. We we bitch and moan about life and about gig work, but it's nice talking to people who know the struggles you're going through and they know they can relate to what you're talking about. So, yeah. So I had a quote.
SPEAKER_00So here's my question about Telegram for you guys, anyway. Is it every night, or is it just kind of see if anybody's on, or or is there like every or is it like every Friday and Saturday there's people on so you know it?
SPEAKER_02And there's chatter in there every day. Okay, yeah, it used to it can be busier. It used to be really busy on Thursday, Friday, Saturday
Waitlists, Multi-Apping, And Fair Access
SPEAKER_02was super like if you if you were not working that night and you went to bed and and muted it, you would wake up and there'd be three, four hundred messages that you missed.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, pre it's not pre-COVID, it was a lot more chatter because we all drove late nights, but now we were all pretty much all doing ride share.
SPEAKER_02That was before any of us were doing food delivery.
SPEAKER_01But now it's mostly just daytime, probably from eight to five is actually the most chatter, and it's a little bit more quiet at night. So gotcha. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So and then Jason's gonna give us the because you guys, I I told Jason after the podcast ended, so I did it backstage, but I was telling him the big I gave him this huge plug. Yeah, you never sent that to me. You were gonna clip that. I know Bubba Sue heard it, dude. Like, I I found myself I at one point I was like, I need to stop plugging this. Like, I've been doing it for like five minutes, and I was like talking about all kinds of stuff. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I don't know how you can do it for five minutes because I can't talk about our shit for five minutes. No, dude. No, um, yeah. If you want to listen to another podcast, uh, which you know we all love podcasts, go to gig economy gig economyshow.com or just search the gig economy podcast on your podcast player. Uh, we're definitely way different than Steve. Uh, we compliment each other. Steve is so goddamn smart. As much as I hate saying that because he's gonna say mean. Well, that too. He's he's probably getting a chubby right now. I did too, actually. But um, he is so smart and he he I don't know how to say that. It's just a different show. We are a new show where we talk about clips that we found over the internet. We don't infotainment. Yeah, infotainment. We don't spend a ton of time um on each subject because we want to get through everything, but I think there's a there's a um a place for both of us in the in the podcast space, somebody that dives into deeper topics more often, someone that just like, oh my god, I didn't know that about that. Like, I need to go check that out.
SPEAKER_00So um oh no, I think we contradict each other great. In fact, I the what a part of what I was plugging was that I wouldn't have a pod, I don't know. Uh it was more like I don't know where I'd be without you. Oh I don't know where I'd be without you, Jason. Oh my god. No, but I mean, like you kick started me at a time when I needed it, right? The start of the pandemic, too. And I was like, uh I hate everything.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, if you get if you get to be friends with Jason, you're gonna have a podcast. I'm just saying, I mean, you will. I started out as a listener to his show, and the next thing you know, he's got me with my own podcast, and now I'm co-host of his podcast. Yeah, so he will have you so involved in a podcast in some form or fashion. So just so you know, what I see, you're you're next.
SPEAKER_01What I really like about Steve is I think he needed he liked he needed this platform to speak, and like not. I mean, I'm so impressed with you, Steve. Like when you can do just solo shit and just rant, like I'm a fucking I cannot do that.
SPEAKER_00And just rant.
SPEAKER_01No, no, but just not even rant, but just like you're able to flow shit. I mean, yeah, of course we all get off the rails a little bit, but uh no, it's it's really good. I I I I'm jealous of your talent to be able to do that because I need Larry because I'll be fucked, obviously. Although I wish you kind of wouldn't have shown up. Like, I mean, I'm glad you did, but like if you didn't answer the call, I'm like, well, here we go. I because Megan, my wife, she's like, Are you doing it in solo? I'm like, fuck yeah, it's time to like sink or swim. Let's fucking go.
SPEAKER_02Okay, well, I mean, I can call in sick.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no, I don't think so.
SPEAKER_00Not doing it. Plus, you plus, honestly, here's my guess. I don't know for sure. And I'll I'll also say, I I never realized who Faith was until that episode. Oh, like I didn't know it was Faith from Vegas. I've I when I was in Vegas uh doing some production work, I did a 13 like in a hotel square. Okay, and she's like, I know that place, that's Vegas. I live here in years ago. This is years ago, it's like three years ago. Okay, and I've and so her and I got to chatting, and then I haven't seen her in like forever. And yeah, she came to our show, right? No, and I saw her there, and I was like, wait, that's oh, Faith from Vegas. I never I've heard you talking about them, I didn't ever put it together.
SPEAKER_01Well, if you ever go to Vegas, hook hit her up because she'll she'll take you out of the town and treat you like a king.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, well, but that's but that that was my thing is that even though your wife asked you, had I not shown up, I know she showed up, but she had a little g she had some glitching issues or streaming issues. My guess is she would have tried harder and came back. So you weren't gonna be alone anyway.
SPEAKER_01I know. Well, I well, originally I offered that to anybody to come on with Larry and I'm like, it's the last show of the year. Just let just fucking come on, we'll shoot the shit, we'll have some fun. If we get through the news, great. If we don't, who cares? Um, so I I do definitely appreciate her stepping in or trying to step in, but I'm glad you were there too. So thank you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, it was fun, and uh, and I appreciate you guys coming on here so much, guys. Uh the YouTube channel link is in the description. I know a lot of you don't leave YouTube, but like he said, you can find gig economy podcast on all the audio podcasts um as well, and uh and at the gig economies show.com, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we bought that domain too because our other one had a hyphen in it and it was clumsy. Yeah, I remember you have a few, you have a few, yeah. So we just bought that one gig economy show.com.
SPEAKER_00Okay, yep, for sure. That's it. But you guys, thank you so much. I always love having you guys by and right before the holidays, too.
SPEAKER_01And yeah, we'll have an awesome Christmas and for sure. I hope you enjoy uh your son being back home and and uh definitely loving on him. You feel better, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Or him, yeah. He needs to, yeah, he has the flu, or whatever, the death flu is going around right now. Oh my god, that's so bad. Yeah, yeah, it sucks. All right, anyway, guys, merry holidays, and uh, I guess I'll see you all after Christmas because I don't think I'm doing anything before that. Perfect. We're there tomorrow's Christmas Eve, right? Yeah, that's it, man. It is here, yeah. All right, guys. Well, happy holidays and thanks to these guys. Check them out. They're every Wednesday at uh 7 p.m. Eastern, 4 p.m. Pacific. Yep. Uh and uh we'll see you back here after the hol after Christmas between New Year's. All right. All right, happy holidays. Peace to you all.
